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 White Elephants

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Spazz
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:14 pm

... Not only that, but continually deleting the archive when you KNOW you're fairly influential so that nobody can read them is kind of a dick move.

I do really respect Grady as a writer, but all good things need to come to an end.

Notice how there is no "multiple" in there. >>;
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DaLadybugMan
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:41 pm

littleWhiteRABBIT wrote:
(And Andy, of all people, did you really just say-Arrgghh... You rebooted the Jeykll/Hyde blog after he DIED! I love your work, PLEASE don't be so hypocritical.)

...Oh, yeah. Whoops. Kinda forgot about that fact. Heh.

Yeah, like Omega said, it's completely different, and I need to get around to actually revealing how pretty damn soon.

And also like Omega said, this is Robert beating a dead horse to death. It's already dead, and yet he's somehow managing to kill it again. Trust me, I gave him chances. I gave him many chances. When everyone else was going "White Elephants has been ruined forever!" I was giving it a chance, because I could see what he was doing and why. You maybe don't know this because you haven't been particularly active in the creator community, but he started doing some severe gamejacking around this time. The gamejacks arguably did benefit some stories in some ways, but it was done with absolutely no permission from the authors of the blogs he gamejacked, and came with no warning.

More specifically, he took a third option when Reach and his daughter(/mother) were kidnapped by the Slender Man. Reach had two different plot branches plotted out, depending on the decision people made. Rescuing both of them ruined BOTH of those options. Zero told me that when he and Robert's author worked on the post where Zero meets with Robert, he ended the RP they were doing by dropping a "Oh, by the way, I pull out a pistol and shoot Zero in the knee." Since that was done in person, Zero was able to say "no, that won't work," but that's not something you just drop on someone without any warning. And most egregious, he set up plans with the author of the Delmont blogs that a major plot point of hers hinged on, and then scrapped those plans without even letting her know--and he didn't even show much regret for it.

Basically, after all that, people are worried Robert's going to be doing more gamejacking. What he's done so far is close to unforgivable, and people are still hurt over what he's done. While I do respect early White Elephants, and while I do believe that he's a good writer, I don't think he's cut out for chaotic fiction. He just doesn't know how to let something lie, and he doesn't seem to understand that he can't always have complete control of what he wants to do.
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littleWhiteRABBIT
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:56 pm

I still have No Idea where the creator community hangs out... XD So yeah, you're right there. All I know is the bits and pieces that I can observe from reading the blogs and what came out the last time Robert made his random wtf post. That explains things a lot better though.
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DaLadybugMan
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:00 pm

I'd try to get you into the Skype and/or Facebook group(s) if I was still in them, but I'm not. Best bet would be getting in contact with Chase.

But now I have to whack myself a few times with the TopicStick (TM)
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altiumvidetur
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:18 pm

I think Robert can only "gamejack" as long as people allow him to gamejack. When Reach and I introduced the Revenant Retcon, we gave enough wiggle room for those who didn't want to consider it "canon" to do so. People who didn't like it didn't have to take our words as gospel. In the early days of the mythos, when the Blogosphere was wild and untamed, people almost needed a gamejack because there was no solidified "game." White Elephants introduced a cohesive element and cohesive goals. Because Robert and the blog were both respected, the new idea-- "Core Theory"-- was accepted as part of the mythos. Now, well, we don't have to. As the mythos is so flexible, we can pick and choose what we want for our own universes. I don't think this re-re-reboot is harmful, as long as people don't freak out about it. Keep half an eye on WE in case something cool happens, but otherwise leave well enough alone. At least, this would be my advice. People can do whatever they want with it, though.
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:12 pm

I'm willing to admit that I might have overreacted to this. If he really wants to, go ahead. No way to know the end result before it happens, I suppose. But this had better be the second coming of the zero verse, quality-wise, to make up for the seventh reboot.
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ExorcistGamer
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:34 pm

Konaa wrote:
I'm willing to admit that I might have overreacted to this. If he really wants to, go ahead. No way to know the end result before it happens, I suppose. But this had better be the second coming of the zero verse, quality-wise, to make up for the seventh reboot.

Finding myself agreeing too, especially since I do seem to recall Robert pointing out in-story last time around that he feels he's like a character in a story he read. Trapped in a cycle of forgetting and remembering. Perhaps there is a plot reason to this. Probably not. But there's always a chance.

Still doesn't excuse the massive amount of game-jacking from back then and I STILL do find this latest re-start hilarious for the fact it's another re-start. But hey, who knows...might be different this time around.


Last edited by ExorcistGamer on Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)
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FreedomCaged
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:34 pm

Ooh, I just had a bad idea: all the creators of the older blogs that interacted with White Elephants and/or Sagel should bring their characters back to life for like a week, heavily comment on/ gamejack the new WE posts, and then go back to being dead.

I'm only mostly joking here.


EDIT: O.k., people like this idea, cool, I was being totally serious, that's right, wasn't joking at all, lets do it Suspect


Last edited by FreedomCaged on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:28 pm

While I am by no stretch of the imagination the creator of any "older blogs", and while my only "interactions" with Robert consisted of him offhandedly mentioning my character once or twice while making blanket statements about proxies... I am seriously considering having Steward come back from the dead just to declare that he has done so on Robert's new post.

And I'll write entirely in lower case, with no punctuation, just so the small percentage of people who are actually familiar with Steward can despair with a crushing realization. Twisted Evil
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ExorcistGamer
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:31 pm

Seann wrote:
While I am by no stretch of the imagination the creator of any "older blogs", and while my only "interactions" with Robert consisted of him offhandedly mentioning my character once or twice while making blanket statements about proxies... I am seriously considering having Steward come back from the dead just to declare that he has done so on Robert's new post.

And I'll write entirely in lower case, with no punctuation, just so the small percentage of people who are actually familiar with Steward can despair with a crushing realization. Twisted Evil

Love it. Absolutely Love It.

I kind've want to see Zero also return from the death because A: he's awesome

and B: It sounds like the set up to an action movie.

"COMING THIS WINTER SOLSTICE!

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE HERO BECOMES THE MONSTER?

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THE FALLEN BECOME THE SAVIOURS?

GUARDIAN VS SAGE

SCIENCE VS SERENDIPITY

DEAD VS DEAD

ROBERT SAGEL VS ZERO

CORE THEORY STRIKES FROM THE DEAD

THIS DECEMBER 22ND."
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Reach
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:29 pm

Posted by me in the creator's group;

"I ain't gonna lie, some of WYAITD's best bits only happened because of the route that Grady forced me to take. But they are only WYAITD's best bits from this timeline. What could have been produced by either of the two routes my blog was set up for before Grady could have been better. Unfortunately, I'll never know. I am in no way grateful to Grady for gamejacking me. All those "best bits" that came about as a result of Grady's gamejacking are still entirely my work and completely irrelevant to what Grady did. Hell, if anyone should be grateful, it's Grady. Redlight was just a guy who did things until I tried to make sense of the confusing mess of random actions he performed over the course of our forced crossover and turned him into a Chessmaster. I can't be the only one who's noticed that all of Redlight's best moments (and, at this stage, Redlight is the only good thing left that came out of White Elephants) happened on blogs OTHER than White Elephants, can I? I mean, even the name came from Zero."

Do I have a problem with the return of White Elephants? Yes. Do I think Grady should have let it die a long time ago? Yes. Do I think bad things will come of this? Yes. Does this make me unreasonable? No, I don't think so.

littleWhiteRABBIT, are any of us tying Grady's hands so he can't type? Have we hacked the blog to stop him posting? Filed a superinjunction against his writing? No, we've just expressed our absolute frustration with the fact that Grady can't let White Elephants go, no matter how low he drags what was once, hand on heart, one of my favourite blogs. In fact, I haven't even commented, up until now, I hadn't said anything in a public forum. What are you ashamed of? Us expressing our opinion? What, would you prefer we just said nothing? How's that going to help? Aren't you supposed to tell writers when you think they're doing something wrong? How else are they supposed to grow as artists?

You think we're being harsh? Please, we're not even being unpleasant. Others are free to disagree about their own individual cases, but I certainly don't owe Grady anything. His interference in my story was just that, interference, nothing more. The people who contributed to my story? Zero. Amelia. Nessa. Jean. Ava. Thage. The Delmonts. And even though I owe them so much, I would still criticise them if they were doing what Grady was doing.

Yeah, Grady used to be a god-tier Slenderblogger, why does that mean we shouldn't criticise him? Yeah, he had a huge impact, both positive and negative, what difference does that make? Would you criticise an amateur author, but not Stephen King? We've given Grady plenty of chances and all he's done is show that he's not worth giving chances to. You're telling us to contact Grady and express our frustration to him personally. Sorry, but how is personally attacking him better than commenting in-character on the blog? Incidentally, I have spoken personally to Grady before, just after the aforementioned incident where he completely screwed over the author of the Delmont Blogs. He lied about the circumstances. I also spoke to him when KK took over White Elephants. He lied about the circumstances. Forgive me if I don't feel like wasting my time talking to him. There's nothing ridiculous about how we're reacting to Grady, what's ridiculous is how worked up you're getting about it. Please, enlighten me, what are we doing wrong? You've told us off but you haven't actually explained why giving out to Grady is a bad thing.
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littleWhiteRABBIT
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:57 pm

Haaaa... I did not catch this right away. Okay, well, lets step back a
bit. Firstly, that statement I made may have been a little too broad. I'm pretty sure my personal irritation at that time centered around the people actually commenting on the blog. It felt like a bunch of 4chan trolls jumping all over it because "Hey! Ripping on Grady is the COOL thing to do!"

I mean, this looked like a legitimate restart attempt, unlike whatever that fuck crazy was he posted the last time this issue came up. And I realize it was still a stupid move and someone needed to inform him of such, but that really just didn't seem like the way to go about doing it. I also realize that there are some people like you who were gamejacked by him that have more than enough reason to want to slap him for something like this... and though I still don't have all the details on that, I can at least understand it... but I'm pretty sure that most (almost all) of the people trolling the blog were not people he gamejacked. So I don't see this as their battle to be fighting. They were just riding the bandwagon of "Lets go kick Grady in the nuts!"


Otherwise, no, I agree with everything you just said. You're quite right on all counts and I'm probably being too forgiving of the guy, but that's just how I am.
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queenofinsanity6
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:36 am

As one of the people who did go troll WE's resurrection, let me just say a little something. I didn't do it because I dislike Grady. Technically, I've never spoken to him, just heard from every creator I've met who's worked with him what a gamejacker he was. So no, I wouldn't say I hate him or even dislike him.
What I would like to point out is that everyone who trolled WE did so completely IC. I'm not going to go down the list, but all of us who did so are known for making snarky comments on blogs, and to be quite honest ICly Robert's claiming to come back from the dead for what, the third or fourth time? It's ridiculous, and Elaine (My own character) reacted as such.
I won't make apologies for operating within my own characterization.
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Reach
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PostSubject: Re: White Elephants   Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:45 am

@RABBIT: That's fair enough.
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