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 Why can't they just END?

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Maduin
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PostSubject: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:50 am

It all started, as many things, with Robert. He crossed over, then came back, then was brainwashed then came back, then stuff, then ????, then PROFIT, then came back again.
He keeps doing this even the blog would've been better off if he just up and died or stayed amnesiac.

Zero came back, okay, I can dig it. Hell, I am digging it, but it's, in practice, just doing a rendition of early Nightcrawler that may become more awesome as time goes. It still has me irritated at times, though.

And then Fizz reappears, with the "that wasn't my corpse" excuse and indoctrinates Cheshka. Okay, this is stretching it, even if it's better written streching than some of the more recent blogs, but she's supposed to be dead.

And now Exilis Veritas. Full mind wipe, the closest thing a Slenderblog can probably have to a happy ending and an interesting spin-off in the form of "Stella, Searching", but no, Vivi and Chester have to start finding cryptic messages all over town and they'll probably soon be back on Slendy's case.

I really like these characters, or I have liked them until now, but what's with people just coming back? Seriously! Ia it really that hard to come up with new characters and start a new thing? We'd read it, you know!

Consider this: would you like for Josh and Logan to come back to life? Damien to reappear? Liz to come out and say that she's okay? We know you wouldn't, so why are you doing this?

P.S.:
I know I'm not complaining about The Mystic, but that has Zeke Strahm, the man everybody is expecting to survive everything, including a Slender-powered nuclear blast, so, you know.
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Zander
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:42 am

Maduin, it's all about people getting attached to their characters. Plus, successful blogs = Beat the hobby horse?

Honestly, I haven't read any of these blogs yet, but with my history as a Role-Player and semi-writer I understand that it's hard to kill off lovable characters. Shit, my "Zander Tekashi" character has survived for 5+ actual years in the RP I was/still am in. It can be hard to kill a creation off that's been used and might be based off of their own person/a persona they themselves implement.

With many Slenderblogs, there's a realization the writers have to come across. You're either:

- Going to die.
- Turn out batshit insane/crazy.
- End up "missing".
- Somehow survive and just keep fucking running till you die of old age, or Slendy gets tired of your elusive ass.

Personally, I feel that's just how it has to be. You can't really win, despite some beliefs. It'll have to end some time. Don't prolong the inevitable. It's like a TV series. Some just keep going and going with lots of filler and the occasional OHSHIT moment. Where as some are intricate and amazing, but short and know where to cut off.

You need to know your cut off point. You need to know the point where it's a good time to end, and where it will end well. Stories always have an ending.
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Broeckchen
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:58 am

Also Seeking Truth implied a possible sequel already with the mighty power of foreshadowing. So... yeah.

I feel similar though. Even The Mystic, as it continues the DiD story, keeps making me go meh - because DiD was strongest in it's ending that let things unclear. Now that Zeke clears up the line between reality and insanity, it looses a part of it's mindfucking charm.
Of course, as Damien said: "You can always disregard Zeke's blog as canon." Which counts for all of the revival stories. But that's a really tough task. It was mentioned here once, with Zeke as the example: Everything featured in his blog turns into everywhere-accepted canon almost immediately. And since canon is what most people agree on... yeah.

The same goes for bloggers like Fizzbomb, Chestevieve and so on... they are kind of popular and whatever they do will be most certainly agreed on as "canon".

I don't know most of the blogs that go through their revival phase at the moment. But what I know is that sequels indeed often fail to live up to the original works and that the revival of characters seems to be a common trend right now.
There's always the possibility to wait with bringing a character back to life, even if it's not one's own fault that others seem to have the same idea at the same time. And as Maduin said, I'd really give it a second thought. The better/more popular your first story was, the more difficult it will be to live up to its' standards.

I'm sure I wanted to say something else as well, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was... So... uh.. *backs out sneakily*
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Seann
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:01 am

Zander wrote:


Honestly, I haven't read any of these blogs yet, but with my history as a Role-Player and semi-writer I understand that it's hard to kill off lovable characters. Shit, my "Zander Tekashi" character has survived for 5+ actual years in the RP I was/still am in. It can be hard to kill a creation off that's been used and might be based off of their own person/a persona they themselves implement.


In contrast, however, the knowledge of how heartrenching the character's death would be can make the decision that much easier. Whatever makes for the best story, right? Or at least that's how I see it.
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Death
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:02 am

Zander has a good point, as a writer I know how difficult it can be to kill characters that you've written for a long time. That said, heartless bastard I am, I've done it a lot. But when people have their character made, it's difficult to imagine a new one. Especially in a format like a blog, where you have to really, really, develop your character to make it believable and sympathetic.

It's kind of like when you had legos as a kid, and you made this awesome robot. You obviously don't want to destroy it, but at some point it's bound to happen. So, considering how much work you put into, you put it back together, maybe adding a few bits. When a character you love dies, the biggest temptation is to put it back together and add a few bits. Not just because it's easy, but because you want them back.

That said, in a Slenderblog you should not get attached to your characters. That's like getting attached to the characters of one of SyFy's six billion cookie cutter "original movies". Everyone knows that the only people who live are the kids, the hero, and the lover, all of whom are generally annoying. A Slenderblog is even worse in that it's the hero that gets punished.

So bringing back characters is probably an even worse idea when you consider your bringing them back to submit them to more of the horror that killed them/drove them batshit insane.
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:54 am

I can see both points here, but I have to agree with Maduin. Yes I understand it's hard to kill a character that you love, but at the same time you can be somewhat fucking over the mythos if you have to many miraculous rebirths or whatever you would like to call them. Creating a new character would be much better, you could make it an expansion of your older work, even an homage. That way the mythos doesn't suffer and get more flack and we still have just as much to read about.
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Roninator
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:06 pm

The only revival I think so far is outright dumb if the Fizzbomb revival. The Zerosage thing has potential if he takes it places Nightcrawler never went, and Robert's already set up the fact that he's going to keep coming with that dream about the old man who dies after a lifetime of being diven insane and recovering, rinse and reuse.
However, the best revival would be Zeke's.
Huh, I'm guilty of revival, too, but that was at Slender Man's whims to screw with my character.
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:22 pm

I'm really more inclined to agree with Maduin here. I've written stories. I know how hard it is to kill characters, especially major ones. You get attached to them. They're a part of you. Hell, it's hard enough to put those characters through traumatic, life-changing experiences. On the other hand, not everyone can live all the time, especially when you're talking about the Slender Man. The point of him is that he kills people.

In a lot of cases, characters coming back from the dead is less "OMG TWIST!" and more "goddammit, I thought they were supposed to be dead." Keep in mind that this can be handled well. In the case of Zero, I think it was handled well, as he had a photobucket account explaining what happened, and the post was hugely ironic (he had this whole huge heroic sacrifice planned, and Slendy didn't even show up). In the case of Robert, and Fizzbomb, not so much. It was less "I'm setting up a huge twist" and more "I'm refusing to let this character/blog die." Incidentally, Zeke's was never truly a revival, considering that his character was clearly not ever dead in the first place.

And yes, I know that I am using examples of people on the forums. I don't care. You should be able to take criticism.

But yeah, that's part of why I started panicking when I realized that my in-character blog was climbing close to 50 posts. I didn't want to be that guy who has that huge archive that you can't ever get through because he draws the story on too long and can't just kill off his character.
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SickSlickMan
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:45 pm

I'm okay with characters coming back as long as they're not specifically dead. Zeke was not "dead", it was always implied that he was still alive. Robert was not really dead either, as we knew he was alive, just mindwarped. Zero...well, he kinda-sorta disappeared, didn't he?

I'll accept a dead character's appearance if it's via flashback or hallucination, but if you're rising from the grave after specifically being told "yes, they're dead"...I'll be honest, I have trouble seeing the author's credibility.

I acknowledge that it's ultimately the author's call, but if a character is being brought back from the actual dead, I'm just hoping it's for a damn good reason.
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Vivi
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:00 pm

Maduin wrote:
everybody is expecting to survive everything, including a Slender-powered nuclear blast, so, you know.

This is the reason that i find it exceedingly painful to roleplay with anybody nowadays except in settings where their death is decided FOR them by the GM.
Everybody wants to be the fucking hero. Everybody is the protagonist in their own mind. Its fucking boring. I don't mind playing a supporting character so other people can be the lead in a story, but when i see EVERYBODY trying to dog the role of the hero, its boring as shit, and the fact is, makes your character flat(er).

The same applies to blogs. It's boring as sin.
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altiumvidetur
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Just as a comment, I've talked to Chester and Viv and they say that the in game pair are NEVER getting their memories back. Ever. So I don't think Exilis Veritas can really be counted in this category. And I know for certain that a lot of the big name blogs are ending within the next few months. Fizz is back because her writer was seriously displeased with the direction the blog went last time, so she's trying to bring the character back in a better way.

I too am rather "HRNURRRRGH" at the aspect of characters returning after they're supposed to have died, but I think some of it is that the writing process is evolutionary, and with the blogs, as they're not supposed to be a "game" from the perspectives of the characters, there is no way for people to rewrite the first posts, because that becomes almost an Orwellian Edit. A lot of people get dismayed looking back on their earlier posts, and bringing a character back is a way of revamping everything.

My blog is going to end up being a long-runner, but there is no other way to get it done the way I want it done without it going on for friggin' ever and getting a satisfying climax. A lot of bloggers aren't stretching it out for the sake of beating a dead horse, but most have plotted out their stories and they end up getting stretched by interaction or reactions to other actions in the mythos.

And those are my two cents.
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:16 am

I can see the reason for people bringing their dead blogs/characters back to life, and I know people are invested in their characters or their hands are forced by other bloggers, but...yeah. The eternal returning from death thing rings very false for me. The only blog return that I was 100% behind was Seeking Truth, and that was only because it was done very slowly, and because Zeke was never explicitly stated to be dead or even mind-wiped, just on the run.

My main problem is twofold -- first, having people return from the dead does tend to cheapen deaths in general. It's like when someone dies in a superhero comic - no one cares, because we all know they'll be back eventually (or their clone, or their aged-up son from the future who's exactly like them, or etc).
Second, in almost every case, I haven't actually liked the rebirth of the blog. I liked the original endings, for the most part, and I think that there's been a bit of a drop-off in the quality of every blog that's restarted. I'm a big believer in strong endings.
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:52 am

I'm going to back Jean up on this one. Spoilers, but Chester and Vivi are never going to return as slenderbloggers or regain their memories. They were Decoy Protagonists for Stella. It's her war now. Chestevieve are off the board now, to borrow Thage's metaphor.

--Chester
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Maduin
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:59 am

Chestevieve wrote:
I'm going to back Jean up on this one. Spoilers, but Chester and Vivi are never going to return as slenderbloggers or regain their memories. They were Decoy Protagonists for Stella. It's her war now. Chestevieve are off the board now, to borrow Thage's metaphor.

--Chester

Thank you. I was getting worried there. Sorry for the outburtst. Looking forward to more Stella Smile


elevator_child wrote:
having people return from the dead does tend to cheapen deaths in general.

This, this so much, but I'd also like to clarify my point:

A story reaches its conclusion and it's a satisfying one.
And then, all of a sudden, it begins again. This cheapens the ending and makes the story feel artificially drawn out and makes it lose its flavour.

DaLadyBugMan wrote:
I didn't want to be that guy who has that huge archive that you can't
ever get through because he draws the story on too long and can't just
kill off his character.

Speaking of personal experiences and staying on topic - I initially have had a totally different ending planned than I have now and I've rewritten it half a dozen times because I thought it would be anti-climactic. Hell, it's still prone to change - I'm still looking for the right atmosphere for it and I don't want to overstay my welcome as a character.
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:31 pm

Yeah the cheapening of deaths is always annoying, most of the slender-bloggers who have supposedly died/disappeared seem to have reasons for returning.
Zero has turned into the runners' worst nightmare, fizzbomb wears the face of a friend but has the motivations of a foe, and Chester and Vivi have left room for a new protagonist that will be very fun to read.
Ron's revival (okay so more resetting) will also be pretty interesting. I'm excited to see how that all plays out.
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zero
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PostSubject: Re: Why can't they just END?   Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:51 pm

<------------------------- lol


I understand exactly what you mean, and sometimes I kick myself for 'returning' However I think I have an interesting story to tell, which will (spoiler) end with the death of a certain swordsage.

I do think that these things happen in spurts, don't they? Well, we deal with what we can, eh?
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