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 Some Opinions~

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Facade
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PostSubject: Some Opinions~   Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:32 am

Good evening ladies and gentlemen of SN,
I’m here to ask you about some things. My friend loves to write and she loves Slendy. So anyway, Slendy is a main character in the story and she wants some opinions about how her characterization of Slendy is.
_______________________________________

She calls Slendy “Ritter” in the story, because Slenderman or Slendy isn’t “menacing enough”. Ritter and Slendy are the same though; she got the name from the German “Der Ritter” woodcuts.
He maintains the same appearance: no face, black suit, really tall and thin.

Personality: observant, intelligent and quiet, although, a bit of sadist. Not inherently evil or good.

Powers and Abilities:
-Regeneration
-Immortality
-Zombification/Proxification
-Pyrokinesis
-Botanokinesis
- Dimension Skipping
-One-Way Telepathy: Can only insert a thought; can't read minds. This is his original method of communication

Ritter can see, talk, hear, etc. despite not having such sensory organs.
-His voice would sound synthetic and creepy, and somewhat painful to hear to those unfamiliar with his voice. His colloquial is that he uses uncommon words and doesn’t use contractions
-His sight basically the same as a persons’

He still goes after people; psychologically tortures, kill, etc....

Background: she didn’t give him one like the others except he’s been alive for a long time
She wanted to leave many things about him ambiguous, such as:
-Where is he from?
-How can he talk?
-Exactly how old is he?
-Where does he get his suits?

Ok, so that’s everything she has about him. She hasn’t told me his role in the story as this still only exist as an idea.
She doesn’t know I’m doing this; I just want your opinions about him and would you read/watch a series that portrays him like that.
So give me your opinion and ask any questions to clarify anything
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BananaBrains
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 am

*twitch* I really strongly do not recommend any of this. Slenderman represents fear of the unknown and by filling in any of these details it really detracts from the fear.

I'd also recommend you have your friend look through this thread in order to get a better feel for what would turn people off of it, I think having Slendy speak in any capacity is listed a few times in there along with some of these other ideas.
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Shayde
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:39 am

Well, it sounds like your friend doesn't know about you posting this, so I feel kind of awkward in giving opinions. Unless that friend is actually you in disguise.

Either way, I'll give my thoughts. I'll try to be kind. Any criticism I give is constructive.

First, Slender Man as the main character. Unless this is some sort of crack fic, then I would advise otherwise. Slendy as a main, or big presence, yes. But as the main character, nope. It would be a detriment to the work, and to Slender Man.

Also, 'Der Ritter' is 'the knight' in German (don't quote me on that, as my German is rusty). The much more used title is 'Der Großmann', but even that isn't entirely good, used, or true. Whilst there are many stories surrounding Slender Man, most contradict each other, meaning there is no set canon. Some people like the 'Der Großmann' stuff, others don't.

Second, while it's good that the basics are down pat (tall, thin man in a snappy suit, with a weird face), other factors introduced aren't so promising. The personality...well, there shouldn't be one. Slender Man is unknown, eldritch to mortal humans. We can't understand it, or comprehend what it truly is. Personality both humanises it, and make it relatable. That is a big no with creatures of the unknown. Same with him speaking and seeing. True, some series have had Slendy speak (or moan), with varying degrees of success, but it's superfluous information the audience doesn't need to know. Unlike other contemporaries, such as EAT or The Dying Man from the Fear Mythos, or various SCP's, the Slender Man isn't a chatterbox. He is silent as the grave.

This then leads to the powers. Whilst it is true that Slendy has some connections with those things, as a main character, it'd turn them into an insta-Mary-Sue. The reason why those powers work with Slendy is because he is not the main character. He is the beast beneath your bed, the shadow in your closet, the voice inside your head that eats you whilst you're sleeping. They make you fear him. If he is the protagonist, then it looses that effect.

I don't want to discourage any creative discourse, but in its current form, it'd probably sink rather than swim. Then again, it depends if this is a story for an audience, or a private crack fic not many people will see. If it is a serious attempt, check out that linked thread that Banana posted. It'll help give a better feel for what people like and dislike in Slender Series, and might help shape the ideas better.
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DaLadybugMan
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:54 pm

Unlike BananaBrains and Shayde, I'd say that it's workable. After all, almost all ideas are workable with the right execution. The whole "unknown" thing they're talking about isn't entirely off, though. While it's perfectly fine to give him motivation and/or personality (a project I'm working on does that very thing), it's best to portray his motives and the like as being ambiguous.

Also, what exactly is botanokinesis?
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:14 pm

DaLadybugMan wrote:
Also, what exactly is botanokinesis?

Unless my etymology fails me I believe it is mental control of plants.

Here are some problems I see with this proposal:

Changing his name to Ritter makes him inherently less creepy. It's not a bad choice of name it's just that naming anything makes it inherently less creepy. Names allow us to label and identify which is the first step to understanding, understanding a monster is the first step to fighting it, and fighting it is the first step to inevitable merchandise empires based on said monster. EXAMPLE

Dimension skipping is a bit ambiguous. Do you mean something like teleportation, or does the story take place across several concurrent/interconnected dimensions? Several dimensions presents the pitfall of keeping them all straight but also the snag of "If there are an infinite number of universes there is must be one where Ritter is not a bad guy and in fact one that is full of Ritters. I would stay away from this kind of thing and stick to teleportation.

Having the same sight as a normal person seems odd to me for the same reason that speaking does. You have a chance to play with alien (in the sense of truly foreign not the sense of from outer space) anatomies. Why have him speak and be able to push thoughts? Stick with the thought pushing and give him something like Daredevil's "radar sense" or a bat's echolocation.

Finally the speech patterns. The way it is described here you have essentially described Data from Star Trek The Next Generation. In print the absence of contractions generally denotes an air of formality, this is good for what you are describing but generally not enough to be useful on its own. The use of uncommon words, depending on word choice, can denote either erudition, wealth, or unfamiliarity with the language. These are also potentially good tools to have at the ready however they by themselves will not make him menacing.

It sounds from what I have read that Ritter is something of an intelligent, deliberate kind of villain. With the right execution this would work but in order to do so you have to make him a character and really flesh him out and in doing so lose what may be Slenderman's greatest asset: his utter unknowability.

Good luck though. Keep us posted. I am intrigued to say the least.
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Facade
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Thrillhaus wrote:
DaLadybugMan wrote:
Also, what exactly is botanokinesis?

Unless my etymology fails me I believe it is mental control of plants.

Here are some problems I see with this proposal:

Changing his name to Ritter makes him inherently less creepy. It's not a bad choice of name it's just that naming anything makes it inherently less creepy. Names allow us to label and identify which is the first step to understanding, understanding a monster is the first step to fighting it, and fighting it is the first step to inevitable merchandise empires based on said monster. EXAMPLE

Dimension skipping is a bit ambiguous. Do you mean something like teleportation, or does the story take place across several concurrent/interconnected dimensions? Several dimensions presents the pitfall of keeping them all straight but also the snag of "If there are an infinite number of universes there is must be one where Ritter is not a bad guy and in fact one that is full of Ritters. I would stay away from this kind of thing and stick to teleportation.

Having the same sight as a normal person seems odd to me for the same reason that speaking does. You have a chance to play with alien (in the sense of truly foreign not the sense of from outer space) anatomies. Why have him speak and be able to push thoughts? Stick with the thought pushing and give him something like Daredevil's "radar sense" or a bat's echolocation.

Finally the speech patterns. The way it is described here you have essentially described Data from Star Trek The Next Generation. In print the absence of contractions generally denotes an air of formality, this is good for what you are describing but generally not enough to be useful on its own. The use of uncommon words, depending on word choice, can denote either erudition, wealth, or unfamiliarity with the language. These are also potentially good tools to have at the ready however they by themselves will not make him menacing.

It sounds from what I have read that Ritter is something of an intelligent, deliberate kind of villain. With the right execution this would work but in order to do so you have to make him a character and really flesh him out and in doing so lose what may be Slenderman's greatest asset: his utter unknowability.

Good luck though. Keep us posted. I am intrigued to say the least.

She just needed something to call him when necessary; he has no set name .I'm sure she means teleportation, if not then I have no idea what's going in her head.Yes, she wanted him to be or atleast seem intelligent because he has been alive for so long. And as for the sight she might change it er something she doesn't like that idea very much either
@Banana I just noticed that; I think I'll show her!
Thanks for the feedback everyone ^.^
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aelur
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:20 am

Going with what Shayde said, overpowered Slenderman as a main character is an instant Mary Sue. About the name, it's not a bad idea at all, but she should have in mind its meaning and how it connects to Slenderman. Why is he called 'knight'? Why in german? That sort of stuff can make very good plot points.
I'm a bit partial on this, but the thing about having him as a main character is that the narrator has to make him in some way relatable to the readers. And in doing this (giving him a voice, a personality) she's going to be turning him into a human-like object. I've always liked the sort of alien-like figure of Slenderman; his existence is incomprehensible to humans, so he doesn't think, he doesn't sense, he doesn't work in any way similar to us.
DaLadyBugMan made a point in that everything's workable when you have the right execution, so I'd say she could at least try going with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:31 am

aelur wrote:
About the name, it's not a bad idea at all, but she should have in mind its meaning and how it connects to Slenderman. Why is he called 'knight'? Why in german? That sort of stuff can make very good plot points.

It's explained in Dark Harvest: Der Ritter is a person from a German child's story about a knight who travels at night to punish misbehaving kids. The cult in the series is named Kind Von Der Ritter, or "Children of The Knight," who see Slendy as a God. It's explained further in the series.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:29 am

Catachan wrote:
aelur wrote:
About the name, it's not a bad idea at all, but she should have in mind its meaning and how it connects to Slenderman. Why is he called 'knight'? Why in german? That sort of stuff can make very good plot points.

It's explained in Dark Harvest: Der Ritter is a person from a German child's story about a knight who travels at night to punish misbehaving kids. The cult in the series is named Kind Von Der Ritter, or "Children of The Knight," who see Slendy as a God. It's explained further in the series.

Well, she could probably develop another story for the name if she wants, that's what I meant.
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PlanetNiles
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PostSubject: Re: Some Opinions~   Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:10 pm

I say let her write her story the way she wants to write it. It will either work or it won't. Either way is fine.
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